#2123 closed defect (fixed)

BurstKBytesPerSecond is higher than the bandwidth provided by the user.

Reported by: lg Owned by: zzz
Priority: minor Milestone: 0.9.33
Component: apps/console Version: 0.9.32
Keywords: Cc: str4d
Parent Tickets:

Description

BurstKBytesPerSecond is higher than the bandwidth provided by the user. I find that against the rules.

If the bandwidth is set by the user just below or on the total bandwidth purchased by him and then the (upload) burst occurs, the line is closed because the required answers no longer fit over this line. His rest of the Internet is down.

Therefore, I suggest to consider the bandwidths specified by the user as BurstKBytesPerSecond. Otherwise, the configuration page requires an explanation of how the user has to understand the adjacent maximum and how to protect himself from bottlenecks as described.

Thank you for your attention

(Please note that I do not have the necessary rights to answer questions or comments here.)

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Only the original is valid:
BurstKBytesPerSecond ist höher, als die vom Anwender zur Verfügung gestellte Bandbreite. Das empfinde ich als Regelwidrig.

Wird die Bandbreite vom Anwender knapp unter oder auf die von ihm erkaufte Gesamtbandbreite gesetzt und kommt es dann zum (upload) Burst, wird die Leitung dicht gemacht, weil die benötigten Antworten nicht mehr über diese Leitung passen. Sein übriges Internet fällt aus.

Deshalb schlage ich vor, die vom Anwender angegebenen Bandbreiten als BurstKBytesPerSecond zu betrachten. Andrenfalls benötigt die Konfigurationseite eine Erklärung, wie der Anwender das danebenstehende Maximum zu verstehen hat und wie er sich vor Engpässen wie geschildert schützen kann.

Danke für eure Aufmerksamkeit

(Bitte Berücksichtigen Sie, dass ich nicht die nötigen Rechte habe, an dieser Stelle auf Fragen oder Kommentare zu antworten.)

Subtickets

Change History (4)

comment:1 follow-up: Changed 17 months ago by zzz

  • Component changed from router/general to router/transport
  • Owner set to zzz
  • Type changed from task to defect

We used to have the burst configuration shown on the config page but we removed it to make it simpler, it was too difficult to explain. Now we just set the burst to 10% higher.

Did you look into how burst is implemented, and did you investigate what problems it is actually causing you? Or did you just see the setting on /configadvanced, made assumptionson how it worked, and declared it 'against the rules'? Please provide details.

Additionally, even if I2P attempts to use more bandwidth than the user actually has, this doesn't mean "his rest of the internet is down". TCP, and internet firewall/routers, don't work like that. It just means there is congestion, and things will be slower for all applications.

Our bandwidth limiter is pretty good but not perfect. Allowing a small burst can make up for other measurement and implementation problems.

In summary, the whole thing isn't very exact, and there's not some bandwidth threshold where it goes from everything works to everything is down.

Agreed, however, that we should look at how we set up the defaults. We will need some test results to see how the bandwidth limiter performs in practice.

I added the permissions for you.

comment:2 in reply to: ↑ 1 Changed 17 months ago by lg

Replying to zzz:
My provider from Germany delivers a normal DSL speed of "up to". Just as it is used by thousands of others. Up to also means it can vary from day to day. That's why I had already determined the available bandwidth below the bandwidth I tested. Nevertheless, it has happened several times that I2P has fully occupied my line. Precisely because of this additional burden of "burst". This is how DSL works when the up stream is busy, all down streams stop. As a result, I have now reduced the shared bandwidth by 25 percent instead of 10 percent.

But it's not really about me and my connection. It concerns everyone who doesn't know about this peculiarity and doesn't suspect anything evil. Therefore, the entry should represent the maximum bandwidth used. "I2P will work best if you configure your rates to match the speed of your internet connection." (Note: A tool of this kind should at least include a link to measure your own bandwidth. Who knows which fantasy values will be entered there now.)

For the average user cryptic settings (under advanced I2P configuration) do not help. All of them are also uncommented, he doesn't know what to do with them at first. - So, on the basis of which authorization is a burst rate applied to the approved bandwidth? "it was too difficult to explain." I'm not gonna let you out there that easy.

For you, such things are commonplace and certainly the "burst" is helpful. I never denied that either. But the following analogy might help. If I asked you for 10 euros - and you expressly agree - then you would certainly be shocked if you found out later that I just took 11 euros. And for good reason, because it violates the agreement and therefore constitutes a rule-break.

How you approach the matter is up to you, as I said. But to think that the participants are stupid in principle ("too difficult to explain") and to deceive them without need is the wrong way.

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Only the original is valid:
Mein Provider aus Deutschland liefert eine gewöhnliche DSL-Geschwindigkeit von „bis zu“. So wie sie von tausenden anderen auch benutzt wird. Von „bis zu“ bedeutet auch, sie kann von Tag zu Tag schwanken. Deshalb hatte ich die zur Verfügung gestellte Bandbreite bereits unterhalb der von mir getesteten festgelegt. Dennoch ist es wiederholt vorgekommen, das I2P mir die Leitung vollständig ausgelastet hat. Eben wegen dieser Mehrbelastung durch „Burst“. So funktioniert DSL nunmal, wenn der Up-Stream ausgelastet ist, bleiben alle Down-Streams stehen. In der Konsequenz habe ich die freigegebene Bandbreit nun um 25 Prozent anstatt um 10 Prozent reduziert.

Aber eigentlich geht es dabei gar nicht explizit um mich und um meinen Anschluss. Es betrifft jeden, alle die nicht um diese Eigenart wissen und nichts Böses vermuten. Deshalb sollte der Eintrag eben die maximale Bandbreite darstellen. "I2P will work best if you configure your rates to match the speed of your internet connection." (Anmerkung: Bei einem Tool dieser Art sollte zumindest ein Link zur Messung der eigenen Bandbreite beiliegen. Wer weiß schon, welche Fantasiewerte jetzt dort eingetragen werden.)

Für den Durschnitts-Anwender kryptische Einstellungen (unter Advanced I2P Configuration) helfen nicht. Sie sind ebenfalls allesamt unkommentiert, damit kann er anfangs nichts anfangen. – Aufgrund welcher Berechtigung wird ihm also eine Burst-Rate auf die freigegebene Bandbreite aufgeschlagen? "it was too difficult to explain." So einfach lasse ich dich da nicht raus.

Für dich sind solche Dinge alltäglich und bestimmt ist der „Burst“ hilfreich. Das habe ich auch nie bestritten. Aber eventuell hilft die folgende Analogie. Wenn ich dich um 10 Euro bitten würde – und du stimmst ausdrücklich zu – dann wärst du bestimmt erschrocken, wenn du später feststellst, dass ich einfach 11 Euro genommen habe. Und das aus gutem Grund, weil es gegen die Absprache verstößt und somit einen Regelbruch darstellt.

Wie du die Sache angehst bleibt wie gesagt dir überlassen. Aber die Teilnehmer prinzipiell für dumm zu halten ("too difficult to explain") und sie ohne Not zu täuschen halte ich für den falschen Weg.

Last edited 17 months ago by lg (previous) (diff)

comment:3 Changed 17 months ago by zzz

  • Status changed from new to open

Thanks for the additional details and thoughts. Especially good to know that this was a real problem for you, not just a theoretical issue.

We do strive to keep the console simple, both because we get a lot of feedback that it's too complex, and because simpler sentences are easier to translate. This is a basic UI goal. Not because we think anybody is stupid.

comment:4 Changed 17 months ago by zzz

  • Cc str4d added
  • Component changed from router/transport to apps/console
  • Milestone changed from undecided to 0.9.33
  • Resolution set to fixed
  • Status changed from open to closed

Changed /config to display and set burst instead of standard limits in 83128124f1de51c926480f80a623f1395328824a to be 0.9.32-19

cc: str4d to consider if similar change is applicable/desirable for android

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